Why Your Contractor Needs a Designer (And Vice Versa) | Katelyn De Spain of Makehouse Design Studio

Nir sits down with interior designer Katelyn De Spain of Makehouse Design Studio to talk about one of the most important relationships in construction — the builder-designer dynamic. They get into why bringing a designer in from day one saves time, money, and stress; what separates a "designer contractor" from one who just gets in the way; and how to set client expectations before anyone picks up a hammer. Plus: design trends worth investing in, what's quietly sunsetting, and Katelyn’s vision for where Makehouse is headed. Wrapping up with a round of "Build It or Bag It."

Katelyn's Website: https://www.makehousedesign.com/

Katelyn's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makehouse_design/

Transcript:

NIR: It's almost like you should subdivide contractors into a designer contractor and a non-designer contractor — because some of them, I know some of them, and they're great builders, amazing builders. They just don't know how to work with interior designers. They're always trying to do things their own way, and I think they're missing an important part. That's your portfolio at the end of the day.

NIR: Welcome to the Builder Blueprint podcast. Today we're having Katelyn DeSpain with the Makehouse Design Studio. Welcome.

KATELYN: Thank you so much for having me.

NIR: I think Katelyn and I met maybe a year or two ago — probably more like two years ago. I invited her personally to one of our projects to come and see. I loved her designs and thought it was going to be a really cool collaboration down the line. We're both from North County. Our offices and businesses are — Katelyn, you're in Encinitas and I'm in Solana Beach — and it just made a lot of sense for us to kind of join ventures. Since then we are now working on two projects. One is in the making and another one is coming up in — gosh — two weeks, in July.

KATELYN: Yeah, oh wow. Very soon!

NIR: I'm having a blast, to be honest. You're a very great individual and professional to work with, and you're definitely elevating the projects to that space that we want to be. So, you're our guest for today.

KATELYN: Well, I am so glad that you invited me, and the feeling is mutual about you.

NIR: Great. And we'll talk about — not necessarily Soho specifically, but generally — the relationship between builders and interior designers. That's a big topic people are asking a lot about. So we'll try to touch on that too. So, the Makehouse Design Studio — just take us wherever.

Background & Career Journey

KATELYN: So, I decided to venture into interior design probably coming up on a decade ago. It was right after I had my first child, and I really wasn't loving my first career. I decided at that point that I wanted to try and follow a passion. I've always loved interior design — it's something that kind of always resonated with me — and I decided to take a leap of faith. So here we are.

NIR: And your first career was — I don't think I ever asked you about that.

KATELYN: I was actually in technology sales, which was — truthfully, every job has a little bit of sales in it, as you know — but not a whole lot of creativity in it.

NIR: Crazy how people are transitioning. Well, I'm impressed. But you definitely need sales in everything. As a business owner, you've got to sell it — not only to your clients, but to yourself. I feel like...

KATELYN: For sure. Like, "I'm good at it, I know what I'm doing" — that is a constant reaffirmation.

NIR: Yeah, go figure it out, you know. So what made you make the leap at the time? What drew you toward interior design specifically?

KATELYN: I always loved it, even as a kid. I was kind of inspired by my mom a lot — we were always rearranging the furniture in the house. We didn't grow up in a high-income environment, so we were just kind of making do with what we had. And I loved to reimagine spaces: if we move the couch over this way, will the room feel better? That's a big part of what drives my design process now when I'm working with clients — how can this function better? How can we reimagine the space and make it shine for you?

NIR: And so it starts as playing with furniture and then moves in a whole different direction in your career. First kid and making a change — it feels like it's not only a career change, it's a life change. It's always like, "I just want to have a different life."

KATELYN: It's so true. I remember at the time asking a friend of mine, "How do I decide to make this leap?" Because I was going from a career I was very successful in — I had a steady paycheck, health insurance, all that. For me, I wanted to do it right, and I wanted to go to design school, which was going to be another investment in my time and energy while having a young child. I remember this friend specifically saying, "Well, imagine your child 18 years from now asking you, 'What should I do?' What would your answer be?" And my answer would have been: trust your gut on this. Take the leap, do something that feels a little bit scary, and just go for it. If it doesn't work out, at least you have another career to fall back on.

NIR: [laughter] I was joking with Gil that we kind of had the same conversation — if I had to advise my daughter to do something now, it's like, "Go be a plumber."

KATELYN: [laughter] 100%. I know! Go be an electrician, a plumber, a framer.

NIR: Hey little kid, go chase your dreams — it's summer school on plumbing.

KATELYN: Yes, definitely plumbing! [laughter]

NIR: It's not the most glamorous job, like — come on. "Plumbing, Dad? What is plumbing?" "You're going to make a lot of money. Trust me. Go for it."

KATELYN: [laughter]

NIR: That's funny. And then you make the leap, and I'm sure it was weird and scary with all the same fears and hesitations as any new business owner trying to start somewhere — taking maybe smaller jobs, bigger jobs. Tell me about that.

Building the Business from Scratch

KATELYN: Oh my gosh. If I think about some of my first couple of jobs — I think anybody starting out in this career is very much bootstrapping it, hustling a lot. I mean, I'm still hustling — but in the beginning I was taking things like, "Sure, I'll redesign your teen's room," and you have only one piece of furniture to work with. You have to get really creative with the budget. A lot of that was people wanting to see if you were worth your salt: "That's great that you went to design school, that's great that you think you have an eye" — but so many of those initial projects, you're learning as you go. Learning how to manage the client's budget, how to make the best outcome with what you have. Earlier on, we weren't moving walls, replacing tile, any of that. It was like, "Okay, what can I do with 19 throw pillows?" [laughter]

NIR: That's good. Come a long way since then.

KATELYN: Yeah.

NIR: And actually, this is where we go next — because when I look at our portfolio from the beginning, it looks funny to me, almost embarrassing. I feel this cringe in my body. But I'm not deleting it or removing it at this point, because that's a reminder of the path and the story. Definitely some weird projects — a few that weren't profitable, a lot of "I didn't know what I'm doing, to be honest." But it's in our past, and now you're growing.

There are different ways to grow, and it feels very different to grow in different ways — but you're definitely impressive on social media. I love the organic tone and the vibe and the bold edges when needed. Tell me about your social media journey. How do you use it, and what do you feel about social media in general? Because builders and interior designers have very different marketing agendas. I'm getting some clients from social media, but it looks like you're very heavy on it.

Social Media & Content Strategy

KATELYN: I do invest in social media. That wasn't the case in the beginning. Even just nine or ten years ago, social media was still very much like a portfolio — a lot of in-progress shots, which is still very much part of my content now, but it was less visually bold. The expectation on social media now is so different than it was ten years ago. A big part of how I drive my content now is — I think clients want to see the process. They want information on what it looks like to work with an interior designer: what are the relationships like, who are they working with? I love when we collaborate on social media posts, because it gives the client an inside view of how we work best together and how early in the process we start.

NIR: Sorry — we can touch on that another time, but that's actually the part that interests me the most. We can talk about social media and content, but I think the end user for our platform — the Builder Blueprint — is builders, interior designers, people that love the industry. And if I can be even more specific, locally, because that's just our audience. So we can jump right into the relationship between designers and builders, because I've got a lot to say about that.

The Builder–Designer Relationship

NIR: Let's start from client education. You walk into your first meeting with a client, and you really want to build a team around you. What does that look like in your eyes — collaborating with the GC from preconstruction all the way through? How early do you feel conversations should start, and what kind of conversations? How do you manage that in your world?

KATELYN: I remember when I was first starting out, dreaming about a project where, from the very first planning meeting, it would be me, the general contractor, and the architect all in the room. Like, that was the dream scenario. And this is also what I tell clients who haven't started yet — if I happen to get someone who reaches out and says, "Where do I start?" I say it's at that meeting. Because in the end, you are saving time, energy, money, and stress by having everyone at the table. You can iron out any building issues that might come up that the GC will be more intimately involved in. I'm thinking about the functionality, the flow, how we can implement beautiful design materials into the space. The architect is reminding us of structural considerations. So I think the earlier we can all be sitting at the table, the better — that's when the end result is truly chef's kiss.

NIR: [laughter] I agree. And budgets, too.

KATELYN: For sure.

NIR: I'm having so many stops along the way, saying, "Do we understand where we're heading with this?" I think you sensed it on our new project — no names — but I had to hold everybody's horses a few times to make sure we're heading in the right direction, and if not, let's just value engineer that thing to make it work. It will be a combination of the finished product that you provide and the rough labor and some finishes that I provide. If it's not happening early, what's going to happen is you get into a big cluster, and somebody's going to lose something.

KATELYN: I can't tell you how many times I've had that happen on projects where the client comes to me and says, "Well, we've worked with an architect, and this architect recommended this builder." Then we get to the building phase, we start designing, and the budget — or the contractor has given them some sort of loose allowance — is so inaccurate. Clients have an expectation in their mind: "This is how I want it to look. Here's my Pinterest folder. Here's my Instagram collection." And you have to have a designer who can translate that reality — "Oh, that's limestone. How much per square foot do you have to spend? You want marble everywhere? Okay, let's look at our budget and compare material costs." Having those conversations early on and setting expectations is absolutely key.

NIR: Just like when I'm getting a green client — if it's their first rodeo, or they just want to build — we need to build a team around us. And if that's not going to happen, then I know what to expect. I'm not saying I won't take the project; I'm saying I approach it in a whole different way. If you're not interested in a designer coming in early, I'm going to budget for a lot of leg work I have to do on prime cost, and it's not going to be even close to as good as Katelyn or Gil would do it. And often, if it's a very complex project, I'm just going to say no. I'm saying more no's than yes's to clients who come in not interested in creating a team up front, because at the end of the day, it will take me so much longer to figure out what's going on as we go — versus let's get it all now and then enjoy the process.

KATELYN: Well, I think too — when a new client comes in, for me, to touch back on the builder-designer relationship — what makes that work well when you're building a team is communication, obviously, and mutual respect. When clients come in and they don't necessarily want to have a team where there's that mutual respect — "I respect what you're doing, I respect what you're bringing to the table" — then it's like, well, where is distrust happening in the beginning, and where might there possibly be an opportunity for things to go south? [laughter]

NIR: Yeah. And the respect piece — it's almost like you should subdivide contractors into a "designer contractor" and a "non-designer contractor." Because some of them — I know some of them — are great builders, amazing builders. They just don't know how to work with interior designers. They're always trying to do things in their own way, and I think they're missing an important part. That's your portfolio at the end of the day.

And to those guys: I will highly recommend you just flow with what she says. [laughter] Especially if the client is on her side — or his side, talking to both genders here — just let it be. Because it's going to be so much nicer. They're not going to cut edges. They won't try and remove soft finishes. It will be a sleeker, nicer product. So go with that.

KATELYN: We've all seen the memes — or the reels — on social media where the designer walks into the room and everybody runs away.

NIR: Yeah, yeah. I love working with designers — you know that. I stay in my lane. I just feel like it's so much better for everybody to just do that. And yeah, creating the team early. I'm very careful about when I'm bringing that to the table — we need more players just to keep the energy controlled in terms of soft costs. But as early as I can, and as early as I feel like we're lacking information, is when I'll bring everybody in.

KATELYN: I agree. And I take the same approach when a client asks me, "Do you think this bid is high? Does this look good?" And I'm like — look, I'm here to advise you on materials and material costs and help you stay in budget, but the building side is on the builder. And I fully support going with a builder who is highly experienced in high-end design, like your company — otherwise it's just not going to turn out the way you want it.

Working Together on Current Projects

NIR: Truly. So I think we've talked about the builder–interior designer relationship, but we can talk about it forever — it's our lives. Our best friends could hopefully not become our worst enemies — it could be the other side. For me, talking about working with you, there is something very chill about the energy. We're working with two different clients right now, and we somehow manage to keep them both happy as much as possible while getting a beautiful project going within all the limitations — budget, time, just client education. I'm really happy with what's going on. I think we're working where we want to work. It's Encinitas, and it will pay off. It will be beautifully shot and we'll be enjoying a great product. And I'm super happy we're doing it. We met back then, but who knew we'd be running a couple million in construction in less than two years?

KATELYN: It's very cool.

NIR: That's just the beginning.

KATELYN: I hope so.

NIR: Yeah. We're going to team up on many, many more. So, talking about design trends — where do you feel like things are going? What's going on in the design world?

Design Trends & Timeless Materials

KATELYN: How much time do you have? [laughter]

NIR: As much as you need.

KATELYN: Designers always see things maybe two or three, maybe five years before the general public really decides they want to invest in that. For a while we've been seeing really saturated colors in homes — bold tile choices and things like that. What I love in design, and what's part of my overall aesthetic, is incorporating as many natural materials as possible wherever we can. I love limestone. Give me a natural slab stone everywhere.

NIR: Did you just say quartz?

KATELYN: No! [laughter]

NIR: You said quartzite, right? Quartz we're putting in the garage sink.

KATELYN: No. [laughter] Call disconnected.

NIR: [laughter] For sure. No, I do think that if you invest in the materials you're putting in your home, you're going to love it for a long time.

KATELYN: It's going to be your life. Full stop. Yes.

NIR: And it's also — my next thing is, what do you feel is timeless?

KATELYN: Came from the mountain or the tree. 100%. It is not going anywhere. Think about using natural wood cabinetry, custom millwork in natural wood tones, incorporating plaster or limewash or limestone or quartzite — all of those things came from the earth, and it doesn't get more timeless than that, in my opinion.

NIR: Even though I am getting a little tired of white oak — thin shakers with white oak flooring and a Taj Mahal countertop. I still love it, but I'm also tired of seeing it.

KATELYN: I will say that Taj Mahal has definitely had its moment, and I think it's sunsetting.

NIR: It is. I love it. But when you go to the slab yards and they have two full rows of all different Taj Mahals, you're like, "Okay, this is what we're doing now."

KATELYN: Yeah. [laughter]

NIR: That's our job — to try and convince people to do different things. I think that's your job and my job, even — to put it together with no mistakes.

KATELYN: Yes. [laughter]

NIR: And yeah — what's aging beautifully? It all comes down to natural materials as the answer. I'm a big fan of exterior cladding. I'm getting a little tired of white stucco, so I'm now seeing a lot around Solana Beach on my walks — and I'm seeing a lot of wood cladding. Beautiful wood, gray tones, burnt wood.

KATELYN: I love the burnt wood. Yes! So beautiful.

NIR: We've done one in a powder room right now and it turned out beautifully. I'm really waiting for the right client with the right budget to do a whole house.

KATELYN: Yes. And I do think that's something I love to have those conversations about early on — those unique material choices you can infuse into the design. Even if it's just in a powder room, that is going to be something where you walk in and go, "Wow." It smells different, feels different — it smells like wood. That's cool.

NIR: So we have this one project — it's very early — we're now bidding on it, getting set up in Del Mar. They're on a cliff side on sandstone — it's actually in an area called Sandstone in Del Mar. It's 3.7 acres with an ocean view, right on the cliff. And I'm thinking to myself: if I'm going to clad that thing, I'd love to find the same stone from the actual ground, chip some pieces, and bring it to the design conversation for whoever I'll be working with on this project. Then use the same wood and wrap the whole thing. It's almost going to be like part of the mountain.

KATELYN: Come on, guys. That sounds so cool. Bring it on, let's do that.

NIR: I'm dreaming about this project, but they haven't even signed with an architect yet. If you're listening — sign. [laughter]

KATELYN: If you need a designer, if you need a builder — sign. We're already thinking about your stuff.

What's Next: Ten Years from Now

NIR: So what's next for you? Where do you see yourself in ten years? We're sitting here having a coffee — where are you then?

KATELYN: I like to dream big. I've had a lot of these conversations lately because I'm at a point in my design business where we've hired two people now — one full-time and one part-time. Which is such a great place to be. It was really out of necessity — we're managing so many more projects now, and I absolutely needed a junior designer to help put together all the FF&E documentation and everything that has to go into a project to make it run smoothly. And really over the past couple years, I've seen the clientele I've taken on grow into a more luxury design space, and that's where I've always wanted to be. Nine years ago when I was daydreaming about this career, I thought: I would love to be designing luxury homes. And here we are. I feel like it's only up from here.

Ten years from now, dreaming big — it's a whole team of people. Maybe multiple locations. Maybe we're taking on projects across the United States. And maybe there's a retail line. Anything.

NIR: Oh, that's for you. Yeah. We're going to put that out into the universe and let it float around for a while. You work hard. You come in every day.

KATELYN: But then there are some days where I'm like, "I just want to take a day off." [laughter] When is vacation?

NIR: That's life. You'll be able to take some time off now with help. You do need somebody to pick up the phone when you're not around.

KATELYN: 100%.

NIR: I think people don't understand the amount of time business owners spend just thinking. Sometimes I wake up at 4 a.m. and I can't stop my brain. It feels like I'm not going anywhere, but actually I am — because I'm thinking about things that help me make decisions down the line. Even if it doesn't feel productive, it is productive. But it is tiring. So even if you're literally working six or eight hours a day, you're actually working twelve or fourteen.

KATELYN: It's true. There have been many days recently where I get the most done either before 8 a.m. — just get up early when the house is quiet and answer emails — or after quote-unquote working hours, because my phone isn't ringing off the hook and I'm not answering all these DMs and messages from my team. There's so much noise that happens in our industry every day, and you need that quiet time to focus. This is more than a full-time job.

NIR: It is. And it's a never-ending story, because once you feel too comfortable — and I'm talking about designers here, though I'm sure it applies to contractors too — when they feel too comfortable, that's when things go south. Not cocky necessarily, but comfortable in their business models, thinking they've figured it out. You always need to be a little worried, to keep that after-hours thinking going. I never feel like I've honed it. I'm always chasing the next step. Hopefully that mentality will take me places, and if not, at least I'll feel comfortable knowing I tried as hard as possible, made as few mistakes as possible, and was respectful. Hopefully that will work.

And — take vacations, everyone.

KATELYN: It's so true. And that's been part of the growing process for me — when I'm laying awake at night thinking about projects, it's like: okay, what process improvement is going to fix this? How can we work so I'm not thinking about this at 3 a.m.? That's a big part of growing the business. So much of this work is heavily process-driven, and if you get comfortable or you just don't have a process, that's when things really go south.

NIR: We just took two days off and went to the AIA architecture convention in San Diego. It was so AI- and technology-driven, and I was like — yes, there are a lot of processes out there and you should keep up with technology. Because even without talking about it directly, your partners and peers sense it when you're getting quicker, more productive, more efficient. Very cool.

Upcoming Projects

NIR: So, anything special you're working on right now that you want to share with the audience?

KATELYN: Well, we are about to embark on a very exciting project in Encinitas. I'm really excited about it because we got to start so early — we had the architecture in-house, which was huge. It was so great to be able to work with your team, talk budgets early on, talk through how we're going to make this happen. I love going into a project knowing we are all aligned, all the materials fit the budget. Let's do this. It's just so exciting.

NIR: And it's also going to be Brendan again — you know that?

KATELYN: Yes! Brand new project, and Brendan the PM is going to be on this one.

NIR: You're already working with Brendan on the other project, so I thought it'd be nice to keep him with you.

KATELYN: He's amazing. He's absolutely a magician — super communicative, professional. He knows so much. I'm asking him questions every day. He's my construction guru. Everything I need to know, he's the guy.

NIR: For sure. He'll be managing this one too, so we'll keep it very organic.

KATELYN: I'm excited.

NIR: Yeah. I'd love to do more of those. We've done two projects now, and this will be a third. Having that relationship going into a project just makes the whole job worth the time and energy you're putting into it. Truly.

KATELYN: And you can measure it in the client's feedback. She is so happy. And even the nicest clients will show their teeth if you're making too many mistakes or things don't feel right. She just sensed that we're doing this to achieve her dream — we're putting so much time and energy into making the final outcome what she and her husband envision. She trusts us, and I love that. It's exciting.

Build It or Bag It

NIR: So we're going to wrap the conversation with something we call "Build It or Bag It." Which is a really fun thing. I can probably predict some of your answers based on your designs and how I know you professionally — but I'll ask a few questions and you just go with your gut.

Open shelving or upper cabinets?

KATELYN: I'm gonna say build it for both of them, actually. Here's my take on open shelving: it has to be minimal. I think it should be for decor-type items only. All of my clients need more storage — we live by the beach, and I think most people just have a lot of stuff and space is limited. I love an open shelf for display purposes, but I'll go cabinetry all the way.

NIR: Thank you. Me too. It's dusty and I don't want to see everything, if possible. Nice hardware, some wood, a pretty vase or a piece of art — keep it clean. Do whatever you want.

KATELYN: I agree. [snorts] No one wants to see weird appliances or cups.

NIR: Oh gosh, no. Matching stone backsplash or tile backsplash?

KATELYN: This one's hard. I would love to do a matching stone backsplash if the budget allows, but there is also a world of beautiful tile — I love and appreciate a good handmade tile. So I think it really goes back to what's the overall design aesthetic and what are we trying to achieve.

NIR: Right. Limewash walls or traditional paint?

KATELYN: Limewash all the way.

NIR: Really? Okay. Yes.

KATELYN: Again — it depends on the design aesthetic and concept. But here's why I love limewash and plaster and Tadelakt and all that: it gives texture. It's another aesthetic layer that brings warmth, brings nature into a home. Could you imagine a full floor in limewash?

NIR: I've done it once.

KATELYN: Yes — it can be a neutral. And it's also about the application. If the true limewash is really smooth, really elegant, really neutral — great. If it's rough and bumpy, like a Roman clay texture...

NIR: Can I put that in there — option three?

KATELYN: [laughter] Option three! Always option three, in true designer fashion. You're always so diplomatically correct — but you're right. Sometimes tile is a better choice. Sometimes the stone doesn't work. What matters is the design, not the material category.

NIR: And the last one — trends or timeless design?

KATELYN: Obviously timeless design. But I think trends, in my opinion, circulate — the ones that lean timeless come back again. We see color palettes from the 70s that always come back in a different, more modern form. Things that feel trendy have their moment, but if you can lean into things we see in our natural environment, those are the ones you want to go with if you don't want to replace your flooring in ten years. Just get a yellow chair.

NIR: [laughter] Just get a yellow chair.

KATELYN: Yellow chair. It doesn't need to be yellow tile. How long did the gray wood flooring last?

NIR: Yeah. That was a hard time. [laughter] We are here to tell the story.

Closing

NIR: Well, thank you so much. For our audience, if anyone wants to see your work, where can they find you?

KATELYN: You can find me at my website, makehousedesign.com, and my Instagram is makehousedesign as well. Pinterest too — lots of different ways to find me. Either way, we will reach out to you if you reach out to us.

NIR: Absolutely. And whoever wants to follow the process of the new project we're working on — it's going to be posted on both of our Instagrams, we'll tag each other, and at the end of the day it's going to be on our website portfolios. Check it out. It's a down-to-the-stud remodel with a second story and a lot of additions — very cool materials, a whole thing. And this is exactly where we want to be. We're going to work on that together, which means we've got at least one more year of talking heavily.

KATELYN: That's right.

NIR: Lucky us. I hope you still like me a year from now.

KATELYN: Oh, [laughter] I'm sure I will. We make a good team.

NIR: Exactly. On our second attempt together, it worked well — so let's just copy-paste that. Thank you all, and have a great weekend.

KATELYN: Thanks so much, Nir.

[End of episode]