If We Were Starting Over Today, Here's What We'd Do Differently
Transcript
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Even if you think that you don't have anything to talk about, if you're running a business, you do. So, absolutely, >> especially a construction business. >> Hello everybody and welcome back to the podcast. I am Nate joined with Near Burkovich, CEO of Soho Construction. And today we're going to be looking back into our own past of the last few years doing construction, >> starting the company, running the company, all the millions of ideas we've had to take a look back to say, if we
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were going to start over today, what would we do differently? What would we do the same? And some of the things that we've learned. So, I think the most important is let's put ourselves in that position. We just woke up. Today's the day we're getting to work. We're saying we're going to start this Soho thing from that day. What are let's say steps one? What are the biggest things that I think we should at least think about, go for do in general? >> Jump right on it. Right. First, you
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know, I feel like this topic is dear to both of our hearts. Yeah. >> When we come from me and you uh starting this thing uh started this thing and and and worked our butts off to make something going on here. So looking back is what we do every day. Looking forward and some some game of future and past and uh it's dear to our hearts. It's it is dear to my heart for sure. So I'm speaking from my guts right now out of my guts just to about everything that was going on with this company in good and bad.
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But I guess to your question woke up today >> or I need one. Yeah. What I know now I wish I knew back then is probably like couple of things but definitely understanding the organization chart that will work for Soho. Who are the people we actually need to perform and operate that system. Uh the second thing I'll say on is under we can we can and we will touch on all like on all of it but understanding the numbers understanding what creates a financial stability uh for us as a firm >> and just uh put one statement in place
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you know don't try and be a catchall kind of guy just to get things going. I guess that's the nature of a new business. You're trying to get things going. But with what I know today, I think it will be a much shorter version of progress to just say that's what we do and that's like what we do today is what we could have said we're about to do back then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think at the beginning it's it's really tough because you wait like if you're waking up and get into it, your
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options seem endless, right? It seems like you're I could take on any project. I could do this small one. I could do this big one. I could do this. I have these guys. I can hire whatever I want. I can do anything to make this work. And then in theory, yeah, that makes sense. It's there. But in practice, you you actually start to stumble upon everything that you've tried to build because you're working one project one way, saying the company does this, and then you try to go, well, I've got this
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other project that's a little bit bigger, so then I have to do these other things on this project. So you start to treat all of your projects differently and the operation for all of them is differently done. So it's like you as the individual might go well this is how I sold that but then the way the rest of the company that you build around you is operating is completely different in it and they're confused and they're like I don't know if I'm confused client must be confused or confused. confused in the
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beginning. Yeah. You know, no one knew exactly where where we're heading and it's much more clear nowadays. >> But we we also didn't know what's work what works for Soho as as a thing. But for us as individuals like >> you were people here were very vulnerable to come and talk about what they see not working even for them personally. >> I don't like doing it or >> I don't think that's a good way of you know practicing business. Let's change
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it. So takes time but >> yeah no it takes time and I think like if anything from this podcast hopefully if you're listening or watching that >> in the next 10 15 minutes we can just take a culmination of your next five years and dumb it down to don't waste five years start this path this way it's going to lead to success. I mean, if it's worked for us, it's going to work for somebody else, right? So, I think that's always nice to hear and I hopefully this episode will bring some
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of that clear clarity >> and we'll try and start a company. I mean, podcasting is a great tool. >> Yeah. >> For to just listen, let people filter, >> you know, their their brains put their, you know, hearts into a one hour, 30 minutes conversation. But, you know, >> yeah, >> it's a a great platform. Yeah. >> Okay. So, let's take a trip down memory road or lane and go to the first year when we were starting. I know we've kind of talked about it a little bit.
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>> Um, but in reality, we had >> Oh, let's see. It was the two plus Paige plus Brandon, Fernando, Nate, Catherine. We had kind of a mix of people that were all thrown together. And it was kind of what we were talking about earlier. Everybody did everything and then >> nothing was done. >> Nothing was done. Exactly. And everybody thought, well, the way I want to do it is a little bit different than what you're doing, so I'm going to do my way because my way is working for my
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individual time and path and things I'm working on. But there it didn't feel like we had a lot of uh common. >> It wasn't organic. I mean, the machine was built out of >> 10 great pieces. Let's let's let's just put it that way. 10 great pieces that can do >> 10 great things each one. So it's 100 great things but each one of the items is like a >> it's 70% you know like uh capacity or or efficiency efficiency whatever you want to call it now it's maybe same amount of
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people >> each one gets way less tasks but they're doing it 100%. So the machine somehow operates a little better. Yeah. Plus we have who is responsible for control. It's very clear to say >> you're doing coordination. I'm doing sales. >> And there are a couple things between personal really me and you Nate not no one else that that acts as development. You know it's still HR if it's hiring firing. It's because we're small. Uh so we got to wear me and you maybe couple
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more hats, but even between us, we're not doing as much as we used to do and like trying to develop that thing from the ground up, right? >> Um >> but I think it also helps with the things that we actually didn't know. I know a lot of times you're you want to kind of take it on and I'll put my mind into it and figure it out, but sometimes that's not the right answer, right? Like I feel like we've each done certain tasks where we assigned ourselves a task or said, "Oh, I'll take that on." And
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then try to do it our way and then ran into so many stumbling blocks and then when we finally gave it to somebody who that's what they're good at and what they know how to do, >> frustration. Yeah. And we got to a frustration point and I guess you know when I was like thinking about what to answer to some of the questions here. So the second, you know, a lot of things that I was typing in, maybe I'm not going to use like on the podcast, but the second thing you just touched, we're
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trying to hold by ourselves, every little thing instead of like surrounding ourselves with great consultants, great professionals to give us if it's on a subbase or inhouse >> to do what they do best, delegate that with the floor. >> Yeah. Without looking back. >> Yeah. >> And uh trust them. And we're doing it much better now. >> Yeah. But I yeah, I think I think it's it's good to have that, right? You want to be able to say like, I'm gonna move
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forward and move this task from not started to at least it's started. It may not function well, but at least >> But then when you do start to see yourself in that position where you're like, it's it's really clanky. This is not clean. It's not running perfectly. I think moving it to somebody else, even if it's just a consultant to come say, "Hey, take a look at my business, how I'm doing this right now." Like, just give me five good things I could work on
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and change and implement. They might have five ideas you've heard a million times and then you might actually try one of them and go, "Ah, I should have just tried that from the beginning instead of just thinking my way would work." um where some days, yeah, your way does work and it's fantastic and everything runs clearly, but most of the time you find leaning on someone else is super helpful. Leaning on, heck, >> Jenny for marketing, for example, true >> has been huge helpful for our website,
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anything that was related to branding. Uh those are all things that you're like, I could do it and then yeah, reality maybe is not the best. So, I think if you're getting into it, even if you've been in this a long time, I mean, there's a lot of people who've been doing construction for forever and business kind of just stagnates. They're always doing the same. They're always like, I wish I could grow. I wish I could get this good job. I wish I could continue to make money on all these big
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jobs. Sometimes it is as simple as, huh, maybe I'm taking on a little bit too much and maybe there's another person who's a little bit better or I can I can lean on and take some take some swings uh with a new approach. Um, but in doing all those things, you eventually will run into stuff that no matter how much you prepare, no matter how much you think about it, no how many YouTube videos you watch, podcasts you listen to, contractors you talk to, you're going to run into a project and
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something completely new is going to happen that you've never experienced and you don't know what to do. So, for us, I think it'd be good helpful for We've run into a lot of different things that we didn't know we'd ever run into. Maybe there's one or two that you you could talk about that maybe surprised you. >> I mean, construction is built out of a lot of different moving parts. So, with that being said, you're going to have a lot of fires to put down and it's and it's a lot. I
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mean, I was thinking to myself, okay, we're we're taking on this project and we're just going to >> plan as much as possible and and and and get it going. But then you find yourself like putting down fires all day. And the I think what's surprising me is not that we got fire. It's just the amount of it. The amount of things you got to mitigate. You got to work throughout and dig yourself out of the mug. >> Sometimes takes a couple hours. Sometimes takes a couple days. Sometimes
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takes a year to get you digged out. So every mistake costs a lot here in construction. That's for sure. >> Which kind of leads me to more things that I was not prepared for. Like the amount of stress I believe that the industry is >> bringing into to to your life. Um, it's just you gotta you got to learn how to control that stress. It's not going to eat you. Um, and uh, yeah, you gota you got to put yourself into into a healthy mindset to be able to control that stress and the amount of fires coming
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in. I was just not prepared. >> Yeah. >> Good amount of drama. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, it's like it's like a movie sometimes and uh, >> not reality. That's what I deal with every day when people are asking me what do you do for a living or how how you're how trying detail a day in your life and I was like the only things I do a day >> is it's just a lot >> just a lot of sometimes it's one big thing but sometimes like two million
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little things it's just insane >> and sometimes I think the biggest thing for me that I was unprepared for when we first started was no m even if you overprepare before the project starts one person just not showing up not calling they've got another thing that was more important that didn't answer to you. You can spend a whole entire day sometime calling all these different people to try to find one person who's supposed to be doing something to figure out where are they, you know, and how
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can I get them back to this project to finish this thing. We're stuck. >> Yeah, that's a fire. You know, the coordinator as good as she is and she's amazing. We got one of the best coordinators on planet Earth. I can guarantee tons of potential, great personnel. >> Sometimes, you know, you got to step in. You can say, >> "Hey little tile guy, >> yeah, >> where you at?" >> You know, why you're not responding to my coordinator? And when it comes from
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you, sometimes it is helpful. That's the fire that just you as a CEO or you as a, you know, higher up or somebody he knows control their funds or whatever it is, >> whatever, you know, it is. Um, well, then you got to step in. And I was not prepared. amount of times I got to switch. I'm in out, you know, >> this is just uh >> yeah, I got I got you got to be on call. You got to be there. You got to you got to show up for >> Yeah. You got to be on call and then even keeled when you get called in. So I
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think that's also another thing. You get called in and your initial reaction is jump hottempered. Why aren't you answering? Why aren't you doing this? But then also it's like >> okay, is there something else going on? Is this >> like is this the the craziest priority? like obviously we need to get it done but let me >> I agree >> slowly figure it out and then and then yeah brief step back take a second figure it out but then be firm >> and say I understand
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>> I need this done >> and >> you also want to keep your relationships right you don't want to you don't want to look like a whole like you know fresh out of the boat and come to your subs and little thing that can happen to them let's say it's their four men that's is apprentice that left the job messy right now You are communicating to your to to the head, okay, to the t guy owner, for example, the tile company owner and and you're telling them what's going on and
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you're not showing you cannot show so much stress. It's just a little job site is a little dirty. >> Okay, clients are complaining. Don't be crazy about fix it quick, right? >> But don't show that you're >> Yeah. You know, >> it'll turn everybody off. It eventually comes back, you know, it's that's how it works. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that also is to a good point of like at at the time you start >> you don't know what's the most important
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thing right and what's going to matter most of the question we got is what did you think would matter most back at the start that actually didn't really matter. Yeah, I think it's uh it's a it's it's a quality over quantity, I think, in everything. >> It's uh the amount of projects you're taking, the amount of people you're hiring, the amount of subs you're keeping a relationship with, the amount of designers and architects, industry partners that can feed your job, and you
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can do the same for them. And it is a healthy process of growing, allowing yourself using better subs and charging your clients prime for it. and also show up to a meeting, a design meeting or a bid meeting or you know even referral meeting with a designer that is she's a hot shot you know you won't work with her >> you're when you just you know when you just started you cannot you you don't have the tools you don't have the portfolio to show what you can do so now when I understand that we're shooting to
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a lot of different directions in all aspects I understand that narrowing down sitting scaling like understanding who do you want to work with, what's your what's your organic team should look like, but also what's the big picture of people you're surrounding yourself with should look like and go on quality, double down. >> Just double down quality and keep on pushing there because that's the only thing that will give you some stability instead like the oneoff >> project from that designer going to make
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your life really miserable. >> Yeah. You know, you better just go to the the best of the best and and work on that real issue as hard as you can. >> Yeah. >> Keep them happy as much as possible. >> Yeah. Because I almost guarantee if you go with the just pure quantity, give me as much volume as possible route. >> That's not what we do. >> Yeah. It's just us. >> I I I'm just more I'm just curious. But I would encourage you to just go to your
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job sites and then take a look at your projects and the finish. Just look at the finish. Look at the drywall. Look at the corners. Look at how it's painted. Look at like just the details in the house. And then just kind of ask yourself like, is this really 100% quality? Like is this as best we possibly could have done? >> I'm going back to the statement. I'm just going back to the statement. Your statement should lead off your decisions. If the statement is small and quality, >> all the other things you got to do are
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should be small and quality. >> Yeah. >> The things you post on Instagram, the subs you're selecting should be small teams, >> but with a family or orientation to them. >> You cannot go to the biggest company and hopefully they will, you don't know their installers. Now, I know my painters. I know the, you know, I know the youngest brother. I'm I'm raising this guy up. >> Yeah. Um, and that's the thing. It's just just the quality and and >> when you see something in good quality,
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it doesn't matter what the price is. Doesn't matter. Hold it. >> Yeah. >> Hold to it. >> Yeah. No, you just keep keep it going. They'll grow with you. >> Keep going. They'll grow with learn. >> They'll do the extra mile to keep you happy with the quality with quality tools, you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, >> good advice overall of at least the first day going in there for us. Um, I think people think about this all the
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time is like you do get the, "Oh my gosh, I have to be so careful." And there's a lot of people who don't start businesses because they're afraid of I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to do this thing. It's going to end everything and people are going to laugh at me. Yada yada, whatever it is, right? I'm going to go out of business. But it it is one of those things if you do focus on the quality part, you're going to get more projects and you're going to get
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stuff that can sustain you through the mistakes you'll eventually make. You're inevitably going to make mistakes in this industry. We all do. Um, but for us, I think what would be one of the biggest >> mistakes that you feel today that you made that what we know now from learning from the mistake obviously would I would not have done. >> Yeah. Correct. Mistake that led into protocol or not even a protocol way of life here >> is not scoping out to the best of your ability with the time frame given a
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project. So we got into that project that no names you know it was the one let's just put it out great guy love him >> dear friend of mine >> but this scope was not defined by the architect designer and was not definitely was not verified to the smallest detail by me and we kind of jumped on that project you know started out with not a lot of details and what happened there and why it is a mistake is because kept us there probably a year longer than it should. You know, if I if I would go into that project one more
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time, I'll take I would have taken three more months to just scoop it out >> and be out of there in nine months earlier. So if the whole thing is like took me two years could it would have taken me like a year and three months and uh by three months of scoping it and not put everybody on because it's not just the time it's the time is the and the amount of time you run around yourself pretty much run trying to chase your own tail and rap but you don't know what you're chasing
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>> you know >> so that's the biggest I think that cost me in time >> right >> uh when when if you're talking about money is probably going into not scoping your client the best possible. So going into a relationship with the wrong client and can be can be on the opposite end saying that everything was scoped out, project looks perfect and you're kind of ignoring personal, you know, personality red flags that came out of the your your clients and the way they behave and the way they
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react and the way they align themselves into your your process. and and you're, you know, moving forward with them. Um, that that will cost a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's what I feel because you're not going to find Colin Gro. Yeah. >> No, that's that's that's true. I we touched on that a lot in the last episode, but I I think that's true. I think on on my end, if I had to think of anything right now that would be sometimes you just really got to put
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your foot down on things when you know you have a process that works and allowing somebody else to say, "Yeah, but I need it this way." And then you say, "Okay, I guess we can stretch and move our process out of the way for your specific situation. We'll get back to it later. It'll be fine." Yeah. >> Uh did that in Rancho and that project running smooth. We we knew that we needed elevations. We knew we needed dimensions. We knew that we needed it all called out yet. When we didn't see
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it happen, we said, "Well, we'll start the project anyway. We'll get them. It'll come eventually." Never came. >> It's called like you're making the entire >> the entire system to collapse. you're making your community collapse because he's chasing >> your, you know, you're she's doing your job >> and then the PM, you're losing credibility. It's like the whole thing >> isn't working because one little thing.
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>> Yeah. When at the end of the day, I could have just gone back and taken the three weeks and said, "No, we're going to get this dimension out in 3 weeks. >> You're going to live in your beautiful enough home for another three weeks." >> Yeah. And it will be worth it and not be the headache that it was. So I think >> through smiling and you know it's a >> it's like a do attack whatever you do. >> Oh yeah. Whatever you do. >> Oh yeah absolutely.
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>> Yeah. >> Um so I mean on that point on that topic of mistakes um obviously again at the beginning you'll make a lot. It's normal. It's standard is what happens. But there you do reach a point where you kind of go okay I don't like that. That sucked. I didn't enjoy this. There's something not running smooth. there's something that's keeping me up at night that >> is more than just I have a thing that happens tomorrow. It's like continually
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keeping you up and you're thinking about it all the time. Um, so I would say what of all the moments we've had, where was one that you said, you know what, what we did in the past, we're done with that. We're not going to do that this way. We're not going to get anywhere. We've got to change starting today. We've got to change and implement some changes here. >> I got you there. the uh I think the moment it happened I don't remember Nate we were sitting in that coffee shop I
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think it was in front of Claire's I think it was Claire's restaurant was me Brendan I want to say Paige >> Paige was there yeah >> yeah and I was like >> I was desperate at this point I was on my knees you know in a sense of I don't know what's not like what's going on and everybody kind of threw their their ideas and trying in a way comforting me but not really because you know there's not nothing really big to comfort it's just not running as it should. Uh
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luckily I still have most of you today to talk about it. But I think the moment things started to change where the moment we kind of scaled. So we we grew up real quick, right? We we start we started small. We we we we grew in team members extremely quickly to extremely quickly to 18 or 20 guys at some point like all in all admin and field and we we cut in more than half >> a year later and now I feel like the growth in manpower is upon a real demand and um based on experience I feel like
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now is the time to hire not because I feel we got to hire at this because we know we got to like the uh the difference. So I think the moment was just scaling back, >> taking a breath, taking a payroll breath, taking a you know mental personal don't need to talk to so many people or then chase everybody to their job breath >> and uh coming back to it with an organic team that growth is clear. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's it's interesting we talk about it because now you even see it
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throughout the path. Like we had our >> I don't want to say best, but our probably most knowledgeable field person who can just manage anything gets sent his way, figures it out, can make it happen on the job site. >> And we had him spending half his day calling and scheduling people to move them around. And you look at it, it seems so clear and obvious now. We're like, what the heck were we doing? You know, he he's thrives in the field. is great at it. He just solves. People love
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him. Our clients love him. And we were trying to force something that wasn't working, you know. And we were like, well, no, we're right. We're demanding. We're forcing this. This is how it needs to be. And I think that was that shift right after that. It was like, okay, we need to shift this around. We're going back to the field. We're doing these things that we know work and we know for this smaller focus project >> ourselves. We had to Yeah, exactly. we had to restructure. Um, very h very
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happy we did that. I'm not I'm not saying that now we're in the uh >> best you know organization chart you know structure possible but it's definitely better than what it was like 10 times better and we we we know where we're when we need help where we when and where we need help. Yeah. >> It's more clear to see. >> Yeah. Yeah. To me, I think the biggest difference is like we can take on large real big large full home remodels and not fall apart as a company. I think
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that's the shift is now it's like, >> huh, okay, well, we can do that and still do our other projects instead of just all hands on deck every single day at one. Like, it we're able to still maintain those. And those are the things you learn like >> how do I do three multi-million dollar projects all at once? at the beginning there's no way we could have done if we did it would have been nightmare everybody just pulling their hair out but those are the things yeah I think
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that the huge difference is taking some time to set back and then it just goes back to >> structure >> I am going to structure this so that it's quality work >> and when it's quality work you're able to get things done right >> and there you go >> um so all those things that we would do so what is something that we would not do not at all. >> Personally, I'll just uh leave work. It's such a cliche, but I'll try and leave work at work. >> I don't want I don't want it to affect
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my personal life, especially for whoever is listening. My wife, she's also an interior designer. She's also working with Soho and multiple projects. And >> it's very easy for me and her just bring work to like home. >> And I think it affected our relationship in a way that we just we find ourselves as just talking about work over dinner every single day. And that's not how it should be. You should you should let yourself uh clear uh and clean and enjoy your afternoons, enjoy your early mornings,
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enjoy your weekends. So don't bring don't let the stress affect your personal life. Try and work that thing out. Try and create rules, create moments in time that your phone is off, that you're with your kids, you're whatever you want to do, right? you're working out, you're with your kids, you're with your friends, you're you're taking a walk, you're having a drink, but um almost like you're answering your emails, take that as well. >> Just another task.
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>> So stress, stay at the office. You're you're moving on. Nothing that going to happen right now should stress or affect your >> Yeah. >> Nothing. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because Oh, it'll hit you over time. Like you do that for a month, >> all >> you're better off have just not responded to anybody that whole month and then taking your energy into the next one because you you just can't last. It just can't keep going over the long term that way.
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>> Um so in terms of like actually systemizing things, so we've talked about that a couple times of like this is the structure, this is the system. So we have a system, we have our process in place of what we do. Um, we work on Monday. All of our clients work on our design with us. We review them all. There's a longer process. We meet with our superintendent. Uh, of all those things, it wasn't something that we implemented on day one as things that we've learned, but if you could go back
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to day one, what would you implement at that time? because obviously you don't have all the super you don't have the certain things but like what specific things would you say okay I have to do these things and if I do these things I can scale >> I'm not going to even talk about the obvious things like like softwares right you got you gota you got to bring tech into your business for me if if any or listener is not using a software I really encourage you to get one you know put put the time to create it and make
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it yours and make it and customize it to your needs that's basic so I'm not going to focus on that I'm going to focus on the devel development of the software and how you use it because software can stay there and can be very not useful or not user friendly as well. Um I think the problem here is that we have we had no touch points during the week. So we had no moments in time that we must stop everything we do and talk about things >> in order in the right order that will prevent you foresee the issue coming
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foresee the prompt or streamline the process faster because one brain is cool three brains are awesome right and um and we call it the pulse meetings you know and we got different different way of doing it so a pulse meeting can be some can can be in the uniform of we sit around me, Nate, and the architect, for example, when we were talking about our architecture projects, making sure we're within time, within budget, right? You don't want your clients to come in and say, "Hey, you gave me that, you know,
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that bid or that contract of like 50 grand to design A, B, and C. I'm at 55 and I'm not at C. So, what is going on?" You want to foresee that and say at B when you're 35k bill say we are anticipating the 50k to be 60 or 70 or we got an issue here. Here's the reason why. That's what drives the cost up. And then what are you doing here? You're pretty much you're you're you're solving you're you're you're taking so much stress off um the system >> by getting a complaint. As you can see,
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you're having a complaint. It's very hard hard to go over it uh and to build the trust again. >> So can that's an architecture. The pulse meetings are also for marketing. So we kind of talk about marketing really briefly. It can take 15 to 30 minutes and we kind of follow up make sure we see growth right because that that's really helpful. I trust you know Jenny to do the best marketing she possibly can and we are we do brainstorm ideas but the meetings are more like there is
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growth. Yeah. >> You know here is how growth growth look like. um keep them going. You know that's the measurables or whatever we need to kind of quantify is there >> in construction. It's obviously a little bit more detail. We go through schedules. We go through our in-house schedule. Uh we we discuss what can and cannot be done. We we determine what's ASAP task and actionable items we need to take uh care today as for as of today and we're doing it twice a week though
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because it's a little bit more challenging and and I call it pool. So if I can add one thing to our lives early on it was like touching points as team of more than one guy. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> To be two or three or more and couple times a week uh gave me a lot of peace of mind. Instead of me asking a lot of questions you're kind of answering it as we meet. So I'm kind of waiting for the meeting to get all my answer all my questions answered. >> But also at the same time you're
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>> we're 247 teamwork. >> Nice. >> Right. Let me come up with a solution before I see the problem. Yeah, >> I see a problem coming three months from now. I'm already updating the client. That's what I'm seeing. And here is my solution. That's way better than it >> should. >> Yeah. No, I that's that's >> here we are in >> biggest thing we can say >> in in the month trying to figure it out. >> Rip the band-aid off.
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>> Exactly. >> You expose that. Get that thing dried out right away because the longer you sit and think about it because you will. You'll just think about it. Think about it. Think about it. >> Yeah. It's like, "Okay, well, talk about it." And then >> points on the calendar. >> Yeah, it's got Yeah, it got to be on the calendar. The should be there. Commit to it. >> And then also, even if there's nothing to talk about, you think, I've got
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nothing. >> Something's going to happen in that meeting where some conversation comes up that you weren't going to have that suddenly it brings up something else. Oh, okay. I didn't know that or I need this instead. It always happens. So is even if you think that you don't have anything to talk about, if you're running a business, you do. >> So, absolutely. >> Especially a construction business. >> Absolutely. Um, so some of the stuff we're going to pass through, I think on
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one of them is relationships with clients. Um, when you're new, every client's brand new, you've not seen it, so you don't know the patterns of everybody yet. But I I think in looking at where we're at now and building relationships with people, going back to the beginning, like how would you set that up? How would you present yourself in your client personal relationship, friendship relationship? Because you want to be friends, but there's there's boundaries you need to set, right? So,
00:33:18
like what would you do going back? >> I mean, I'll probably going to try and combine how to select a client early on. Yeah. What should you look for? >> Um, how to set boundaries. I guess that's that's another way which is >> very much similar to the first thing. and and um you know what kind of relationship you want to have with clients. So the the thing is if you got a process you you got to believe in your own process. You cannot sell the process if you don't believe in it. If you
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believe in your process and somebody comes in and they're completely off your process. You you have the duty to ex to try and educate them and put them in the right place. That's the first time they're doing it. They don't know what's what to do. They're they're green. They're coming in. You're sitting down with them and you're explaining them about the process. You're you're telling them that if they will stick to your own to your process that's for the be for the best interest
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of the project of their property, right? >> You're doing it once and then you let them be for a minute and they come back and you're back and forth emails, initial talks, whatever it is >> and they're coming back and they almost forgot everything you just said. >> Yeah. >> So, you can do it one more time and be a little bit more assertive with what you're saying. Again, it doesn't click. Just don't feel like you can click. They cannot click with your process. You got
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to drop it. >> You know, there's a certain point in time that you got to say that's a process that what we offer. You're not walking into McDonald's asking for fresh fruit salad. It's just not the product that we're selling. >> Yeah. >> So, um and they cannot make it. >> Fast food burgers to make. You're you know they're they're explaining you you know etic we're not making it. Second time we're not making third time here taking back
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>> you're hallucinating right now that's not not going to work. >> Same same in construction they come in you're trying to explain that the process back and forth it's not working. Got to let them go. >> Yeah. >> You just got to let them go with all the respect. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of day it doesn't mean it's a bad person. Doesn't mean they don't understand. just the way I run the company and do this the certain way and our team works together.
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>> We design it, we permit it, we build it. You know, we we cannot design it, build it. We cannot permit it, build it. We got to do the whole thing. >> Yeah. >> Or get a good set of plans we can work with. You know, if all that missing and you're pushing me, >> you know, to to start this project early on or pushing me to give you a number when I don't know what I'm building. >> So, the process it's not working. >> Yeah. because you'll you'll yeah this
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thing you'll do it you'll start it and it won't happen every time but one of them will >> either put you out of business or make you wish you never were in business when you take on those kind of projects right that just don't match >> um all right moving ahead to our marketing portion >> so this kind of if we were starting today >> back to the original question where would we put and where would we spend our money on marketing Yeah. >> Would you spend money on marketing?
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>> Absolutely. Absolutely. You got to spend money on marketing. You cannot make it without marketing. It's not going to work. Uh it's the fuel. It's the blood that will that the only thing that will feed you at the end of the day. Uh in a person or a company that doing it full-time. We were when we started everybody know you know I tried to do a couple things. You tried a couple things. So first of all, our brand name went really low because the way I market and the way you market and what you
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think is important and what I think is important from all different aspects are not aligned. >> Mhm. >> And then um also it's it's just you've got operations come like sales operations comes first and then on your free time you're doing a little bit of marketing. This is not how it should work. >> Yeah. >> You should have somebody doing full-time. Uh so for us the investment was in getting in person. Now we're starting to see the results. We're very
00:37:16
happy with how it works and that's my recommendation. Now I know it's not for everybody. Not everybody got leverage to get somebody full-time on apparel and do marketing and also trust them. But if you don't have it then sub it out. >> Find somebody that can do part-time. Find somebody that can do you know again go back to your statement. You want to do quantity. You want to do quality. what do you want to do and let them take it from there and start telling your story. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then and then
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>> you're not going to be the person to do it. >> Yeah. And then actually just actually budget for it. I think that's the other thing. It's like if you really just sit there and say, >> "Well, maybe I can't go buy this big tool that I wanted because >> shortterm the pain of not having it. long term. I'll get three, four more projects if I just take a little bit of that money that I made on this first one and put it towards marketing myself. You know, that's going to build you long
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term. If you're consistent with that and continually doing that and really just saying this money, I'm going to act like I never even had it because I know I need to do this marketing like you will grow. People will find you. People will talk to you. Especially if you the stuff that's free is go talk to designers, go talk to contractors, go talk to architects. Just go talk to them. It's free, doesn't cost you a thing. Like that kind of stuff is probably the most powerful marketing. And honestly,
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>> you still don't have that bone in your body, then you gota have somebody to do it for you. So, >> somebody needs to um say somebody needs to kind of draw a path on how you do marketing in your company can be your ideas and somebody got to execute them on a daily basis. >> Yeah. Yeah. Stick to it, execute it, you will grow. >> Uh okay. So wrapping up on our conversation here, essentially going back to the beginning, everything we kind of talked about today is stuff that
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we've actually done, experienced, which is nice. Like it's real, it works. We get to the point where like we're business is running and operating. Um I I think we are very lucky that yeah, we have a great team. We found great people. It did take a long time and and working and communicating and figuring out >> who do we need and who are good fits and going through a thousand LinkedIn and Indeed applicants to try to figure out like who fits this team well. And and I think if you decide on what
00:39:38
your business is going to be and who you want to be and if you try to find people that fit that mold and match it and try it out, I think that's honestly your best bet because you have a team that supports you and understands your idea and eventually you guys will learn together and grow and and figure this thing out. I think that's really the key if I go back like just get those right people there. >> A players. >> Yeah, eight players and then find the >> love what they do. They got to love what
00:40:05
they do. You cannot train from an orange tree. You guys always tell me, "You're not going to find an apple >> pulling from an orange tree." >> Yeah. >> That's not how it works. You gota >> you got to look for the, you know, right fruit. >> Yeah. >> Uh and uh Yeah. Very very we're rapping and saying we're still the it's uh almost Japanese this profession. You're a student of the profession. It's going to be you're going to be a student
00:40:31
for the rest of your life. And if you lost that spark and if you're saying I'm not a student anymore, I figure it out. You just don't know what you're doing. I can tell you that you're you're or very fresh in the industry or you're just bump. >> Yeah. You've plateaued. >> It's Yeah, exactly. It's or one or or 10. >> Yeah. >> You got to be somewhere in between. Always say >> I got to keep on growing. >> Yeah. Because if not,
00:40:55
>> someone's coming right behind you who they're going to take. >> Competitive, dude. It's competitive. It is a competitive industry. Construction is all over. You got to build. You got to keep on building. People needs you. But we're in San Diego. San Diego is packed. >> Packed with great companies. They're doing great jobs. And if you want to stand above the rest, you gota have a players and you got to keep on learning. >> Yeah. >> Never stop.
00:41:16
>> Yeah. No. Exactly. >> Right. >> All right. So, on to >> my favorite topic, favorite segment on the show >> is our build it or bag it. Today's topics, we've got waterfall islands, colorful cabinetry, and large format tiles. Interesting one. Okay. >> Um, waterfall islands. I'm so split on this one because we've installed we've installed a lot of waterfall islands and we've installed a lot of cabinetry. And I've seen a lot of people get very
00:41:49
creative with having half the countertop blend into the cabinet wood that goes along the side of the waterfall. But at the end of the day, like >> maybe this is why we're not interior designers. >> I mean, I just don't mind them. >> Yeah. >> I Okay. >> Yeah. I'm like, "All right, cool. That it's cold on my leg. That's great. I don't have a >> opinion on waterfalls. We can move." >> Okay. I I don't like really really thick
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ones that are rough. That's my opinion on it. Okay. I like nice thin ice trim. >> Uh colorful cabinetry and I'm assuming this means painted cabinetry in different colors. Um, that really has to depend on Yeah, it really I think depends on the design of the house because I feel like you can't have like a kind of Mediterranean coastal house and then suddenly say I've got bright pink cabinets, you know, like there there has to be some sort of bl. You got to pick one or the other. If you're going to be
00:42:46
all over kitchen, no kitchen, keep it classic. I mean, try and go with wood, go with stain. I think it's timeless. I think it's more soft on your eyes. If you got like other rooms that you want to play with, cool powder room, a cool laundry room, you can do a little bit of it. >> Not too much. I mean, you got to love it every single day and not just one day. >> And colors are one day in trend, one day they are just they got old and it's not interesting anymore and not nice anymore and just
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not in trend in trend anymore. While wood is always trendy. It's a natural material. I'm a I prefer that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, that's her. That's her. Yeah, because I mean you paint your kitchen yellow. When it's cold and winter, that yellow doesn't feel quite the same. Maybe you're just like, "That's my sunshine." But yeah, I don't know. I I I like stained. And >> yeah. >> Yeah. I agree. I agree. >> This one's kind of interesting. So large
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format tiles. I'm going to say this is like very large tiles. Like I'm we're talking about things that we're I'm talking about I don't know if you saw Jax Ketman's tiles that were like six feet by six feet. massive tiles like I I think that's what I'm thinking here. I know obviously large formats you can be up to like two feet each. That's kind of normal, but thinking like big like you would see in a hotel almost or like a big large >> I don't like those. I mean I don't like
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big big tile like hotel tiles but I I'm not against big format. I think what we did is psy um >> still going to go for wood flooring. Yeah. >> Yeah. I love the wood floor. They're great. So I think I think large format tile I would do on a patio. >> I think that would be fine like like in in place of pavers like I think that would be a good look especially around the pool. >> The waterfalls we bag it and then we pack it and we >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. We we bag
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it. I >> not >> colorful. We're in the laundry room maybe. Um large format tiles outside. Give me wood. >> Give me wood. >> Build it with wood, baby. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, thank you everybody. This has been the Builder Blueprint podcast. I am Nate and this has been Near with Soho Construction. Uh, go ahead and follow us or give us a like where you're listening to us. >> Have a great weekend and celebrating. >> We're having our third annual dinner
00:45:06
today. Nate, is that your third or fourth? >> This is my fourth. I think >> fourth >> one wasn't annual. It was just a dinner and then we just said >> you remember better than I do. But here we are uh celebrating our third or fourth annual formal dinner which is kind of came in a habit. We're very excited about it. Kind of >> the the original was every October we're going to have a dinner and then it turned maybe we'll do it in December and now we're in January and we're having
00:45:35
our annual dinner. I love it. >> You're right. I'm just I'm just trying to get everybody in and it's uh you know if I'll continue that way it's just every 10 years you're getting one free. >> There we go. There we go. >> All right. Talk to you guys later. >> Thanks.